Gay Male Misogyny
She’s confident. She’s drop-dead beautiful. She’s intelligent, capable, engaging, and frankly she doesn’t really need you or any other man - but you’ve caught her eye nonetheless. She glances at you in passing - then pauses, curious, and looks again. At this point you’ve noticed her looking, and realize that - gasp! - she seems to be interested in you. So when she walks over with a smile and stretches out a hand to introduce herself…
…you sneer at her and tell her to move along, because the kitty litter box is down the hall.
And then you wonder why she thinks you’re a prick.
Sound outlandish? It’s not. That scene took place in a cafe down the street from the Art Institute of Houston in late 2001, and I watched in disgust while my former friend and classmate, Jeff, sent a woman packing just for saying hello…then proceeded to smugly congratulate himself as if he’d done something noble and worthwhile.
It’s a pretty common occurrence. While we aren’t all guilty, gay men can be some of the most misogynistic jerks around. We act as if women are substandard just because we aren’t attracted to them. If a woman flirts with us we think we’re entitled to be catty to her, as if she should have known better even if we’re not walking around with huge “GAY - NOT AVAILABLE TO WOMEN” stickers on our foreheads. We pick at their clothing and call them skanks if they dare to dress like anything other than prudish Victorian schoolmistresses, for daring to subject our eyes to their female flesh. Even if we have close female friends, when they’re not around we make derogatory comments about how disgusting female anatomy is and mock the worst stereotyped traits of female behavior even as we unconsciously mimic them.
My question is: why?
Are we afraid of women? Are we so insecure in our place in society and our own self-worth that we need to somehow make ourselves feel superior to someone? Do we fear that, in entering into relationships with other men, we will be compared to women and thus wish to distance ourselves from them as much as possible? What is the point in acting as if we’re members of some elitist society, a no-girls-allowed club in which our childhood treehouses have been replaced by sprawling art-deco flats?
Regardless of the reasons, it’s entirely unfair. We shouldn’t act like it’s the woman’s fault that we aren’t attracted to her gender, and we shouldn’t treat her as anything less because of it. Straight people don’t treat members of the same sex that way; in fact, I doubt they even think to, as members of the same sex are simply viewed as comrades, potential friends - an attitude we should take more often with women. Women fought too damned hard to be recognized as equal members of society for us to undermine them that way, and they’re still fighting. In fact, they’re fighting the same battle that we are; they’ve just made more progress.
Maybe it’s that we’re jealous of that.
Regardless of that, it’s time to stop. We gripe and moan about the nasty way that people treat us, but sometimes we are the most hypocritical a**holes on the face of the planet. We act like it’s our right, granted by God or self or what the hell ever, to be as nasty to anyone as we want; in fact, we think it makes us cute.
Well, I don’t think it’s so cute. And frankly, no matter what’s been done to us as a group or how many creepy fag hags we’ve put up with, we aren’t owed the right to that kind of behavior as many seem to think we are - not on a daily basis, and most certainly not unprovoked.
Maybe if we weren’t so snotty and discriminatory so often, society in general would make more of an effort to accept us. For every story you hear of that nice gay couple down the street who helped rake the neighbor lady’s yard, you hear three stories about the b*tchy gay guy in customer service who treated a lady like trash for no good reason, about the snotty gay stylist who couldn’t be content with just trimming a woman’s hair but instead launched an all-out personal attack on her skin and clothing, about the hot guy in the cafe who called a woman a skank for smiling at him and told her that the kitty litter box was down the hall.
Enough already.
We erode our own right to equality when we refuse to grant equality to others.
So grow up, guys.
This is real life, and girls don’t have cooties anymore.
misogyny, bad behavior, gay male misogyny
November 20th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Been a while since I left a comment, but that doesn’t mean I’m not still reading. I’m glad you decided to address this topic today. I’ve seen this happen to women and have had it happen to me (via the guy I called my best friend at that time).
I don’t know what the reasons behind this kind of behavior are, but it’s extremely hurtful to be on the receiving end. Speaking as a women who has been put down by a gay man, I don’t know why some gay men feel the need to attack women in such a way.
While I’m sure there are some women that provoke such behavior, not all of us are trying to be mean, horrible people. Don’t be insulted if a women thinks your attractive. Be flattered that someone thinks that way of you, whether or not it’s the intended audience. Don’t attack her for what you perceive to be her shortcomings. It could be that you see her from a different viewpoint than she sees herself. Regardless of the type of attack, please just stop.
Umm, that turned into a bit more of a rant than I intended. Can we tell this touched on a sore point?
November 20th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Even lesbians get treated like that by gay men. Lord knows I have.
November 20th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Well, I’ve always seen a lot of “mommy-issues” among my gay friends (lord knows I have them, and a good number of “daddy-issues” as well). They seem unable to form a stable relationship with women on any level, so maybe that’s why they lash out. To this day I’m still convinced that a couple of really neurotic guys I met in college are not really gay, they just hate women so much they think they’re attracted to men. I wonder if my parents hugged me as a child if I would be closer to a Kinsey 3 or 2?
November 20th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I can count myself fortunate that I’ve never come across this to my knowledge — then again, I know extremely few gay people IRL.
It’s truly disgusting behavior, and I agree that all it does is cast further negative color on gay men. One thing I do have to wonder about, though, is on the source of it. I can see how it grows to that behavior — at least straight misogynyst men still want women around to ogle and bed, gay men don’t ‘need’ them around at all — but I’m curious as to starting points. Mommy issues, ‘formerly’ bisexual men who were burned one too many time by ladies they asked out, falling in with bad crowds?
I’m fascinated by the sociology and repulsed by the attitudes.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Well, so far for good education and manners.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Well put, and certainly worth being said. I’m gay, and it’s an embarrassment to me sometimes the way gay guys treat women. Personally, I came out kinda late and had was married with children for several years, and I still love my ex. Just not in that way. Where would we gay guys be without our women-folk? And, indeed, treating anyone like crap makes one no better than the ones we bitch about who disrespect us.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:20 am
In its own way, it’s like misandrous lesbianism, which is more in popular awareness (thank the publicity of feminism nuts), but uncertain whether it’s more or less common than what you are talking about.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:43 am
…and in other news, you have J-E-N-O-V-A playing on your mix track.
November 21st, 2007 at 5:20 am
[...] wrote an interesting post today on Gay Male MisogynyHere’s a quick [...]
November 21st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
~looks amused~ She says this like I don’t know. It’s one of my favorite tracks on the AC soundtrack. It used to be my ringtone on my phone, but after giving me a few heart attacks from loud late-night phone calls startling me out of sleep…I had to switch it to Black Water.
I don’t know if misandrous lesbianism is more common, but I think it’s more commonly recognized by the simple stereotype of “man-hating lesbian” that’s often assumed. The majority of my friends are lesbians, and while they aren’t man-haters (would make it hard for us to be friends otherwise), many of them are wary of straight men with good reason…usually because straight men don’t really take the “not interested in men” thing seriously and are most likely to try to tell a woman that all she needs is a good man to turn her straight. That wariness can blossom into hatred if it’s aggravated enough. Conversely, women are less likely to tell a gay man that all he needs is a good woman to turn him straight (though straight men will tell us that, hell my own father said that about me), so right there we have less justification for our behavior than lesbians who may have been burned by men in the past.
I can’t really speak of my friends as a decent representative of a non-misandrous lesbian population, though, because it’s a biased test group; people of like minds tend to gravitate together, and such.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
:fidget:
Yeah, I figured you’d catch that. I meant to add a heart-symbol at the end to seem less… informative(?) but I keep forgetting that “less-than-three” doesn’t work in this comment block.
By the way, do you have a list of what songs/artists are here? There’s a lot of stuff (especially the C-pop/K-pop stuff, much of which I have not paid attention to since high school)
November 21st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
~chuckles~ I caught what you meant, and just wanted to tease a little. It’s a damned awesome song, ne?
I can put together a list, if you’d like. I was considering it anyway, especially since the stream only displays the publishing point name and not the track info.
Oh, and…I…think you can do something like <3, as long as you have text after it. It only screws up if you do a face like >.< at the end of a sentence right before moving on to a line break. I think. Maybe. I’ll find out when I hit submit.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Sorry, Adri, I’m with your former friend Jeff. Despite your careful editing, the facts of this story can’t be disguised: Jeff is a good-looking young man, better looking than you, Adri, and he’s used to being hit on by people he’s not attracted to; people like you, Adri–people, in fact, that he’s repulsed by–and he’s found a way, with that quick wit of his, to deal with it. The too-confident female who, quite inappropriately and presumptuously, proffered her hand for Jeff to shake, was hitting on him. He recognized that, and responded just as any of us might have if we’d had the mother wit to do so. Usually, when strange women, or born-again Christians offer me their hand in fellowship, all I can think to say is, “Go away.” If this be misogyny, make the most of it.
February 15th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Um…Anatole, you may want to think before you make assumptions. I’ve actually rejected Jeff more than once. During the time when I knew him, he was attracted to me; I didn’t return his interest - mainly because I 1. had a boyfriend at the time and 2. didn’t find him physically attractive, but also because he was an asshole and I found him rather repellent, causing me to disassociate myself from him after a brief friendship. He, like you, seemed to have a bit of a problem getting over himself.
I’m not even going to get started on the whole thing with Jeff being better-looking than I, because 1. I possess an ounce of humility, and 2. it’s a pretty ridiculous claim for you to make when you have zero idea what he or I look like, or why that woman chose to flirt with him rather than me.
Oh, and by the way…you just inadvertently flattered my wit, instead of Jeff’s. The kitty litter box line? Mine. What Jeff said was far more vulgar, crude, and clumsy, and not suited for a public blog, so I came up with a substitute that was less clumsy and less disgusting.
Now stop trolling and roll on.
Or did the article touch a nerve, sweetie?
February 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Anatole…did someone’s social security check not show up on time this month? Good lord man, that was a bit of a rampage.
For the record, Adri is hot. Very hot. Out of my league, hot. You think I would stop to protect my testicles, but I’m not going to. So hot I dread him moving to Chicago, because all the available men in the city will flock to him and ruin my chances at him, and reduce the pool of available men for me to date. Okay, now I think I’m done. *hides behind Lessa, because Adri looks scary now*
Oh, and I don’t see why you needed to point out she was hitting on Jeff…Adri said she was. However, even being ridiculously hot doesn’t excuse being rude to someone making a pass. I can’t judge, I can never tell when I’m being hit on, but I do know I have the courtesy when I do realize it to return the compliment.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
My point, Adri and Kujo, and Jeff’s point, is that being hit on, “flirted with,” by somebody you don’t find attractive, and who hasn’t made the least effort to find out whether you’d welcome the attention, is NOT a compliment. Gentlemen know this. Women only seem to understand it when they are the recipients of unwelcome attention. Otherwise, not being gentlemen, women seem to have no qualms about inflicting themselves on anybody they’ve a fancy for. And, Jeff’s and my point is, they’re bloody rude about it. I’m glad you’re hot, Adri, and witty–but I still think I like Jeff better.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
And I suppose people who aren’t often flirted on by attractive people might maintain that stance, yes. As a 5.5, maybe a 6, myself, having a 10 flirt with me is one of the greatest compliments. Even a 3 or a 4 flirting raises my spirits, as it proves that there are people who would consider me attractive enough to pursue. What greater compliment can there be?
February 15th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Not all women are rude about showing their interest; I’ve had women approach me rather shyly and rather politely, and have actually made friends with them once they found out that no, I’m not really interested, but I took their interest as a compliment. It’s really sad that you stereotype people that way and think it’s okay to retaliate like that regardless of their method of approach, as if you’re somehow entitled - and I rather feel sorry for you if this is how you approach interactions, and can’t help wondering just how bad your experiences have been to make you so bitter and quick to judge people’s intent and people in general. Look at how quickly you chose to judge me, making assumptions based on a briefly-outlined recollection.
The point of flirting or hitting on someone is to find out if someone might be interested, as long as people aren’t obnoxious about it and practice a bit of subtlety (which, in my opinion, Americans aren’t particularly adept at, but when in Rome…). In my experience, the worst perpetrators of this aren’t straight women, but straight men - although I’ve had plenty of experience with gay men who won’t take no for an answer, either. Obnoxious flirtatious behavior isn’t limited to gender or sexuality, and it’s rather rude to judge an entire quadrant of humanity by the bad behavior of one or two. It’s the exact same kind of behavior that causes homophobes to spread horrible stereotypes about us, just from witnessing one or two bad apples.
What amuses me the most is that after talking to you just this briefly, I prefer Jeff’s company to yours, as well. And considering how well I know Jeff…that’s saying a lot. But at least we’re in agreement on one thing.
Oh, and Hikaru? ~flat look~ Over the top a bit, don’tcha think, darlin’? I mean, I’m not ugly, but jeeeeeeeez. Oi, but I need to go get dressed before people get here, so no more playing around online with you. You, me, dinner, movie?
March 24th, 2008 at 5:45 am
[...] Maybe then we wouldn’t have to deal with attitudes like this guy. [...]
April 19th, 2009 at 10:09 am
[...] and blacks mix it up on the streets of New York, or American Indians decide to exclude blacks, or gays hate on women. Our narrative has [...]
June 13th, 2009 at 10:41 am
[...] television lately who goes on misogynistic tears against Carrie Prejean. He needs to take this gay man’s advice. Intersectionalism, asshole. It [...]
June 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Yeah, nothing new in this topic.
I’m transboy… Misogynistic gays Better not mess with me again cause it can turn very ugly b4 they can blink. I wasn’t always that mean, but they made me–males, not just gay ones.
Yeah, I’ve heard Stuff about women from Them… about what I have down in my pants, how horrible it is… It was said to hurt and put down and break, they just wanted to put down someone they perceived as a “woman” at that moment. American society is full of gross misogyny–on TV, in the media, everywhere. And yes, “mommy issues”, this is correct. I’m sorry I’m so disgusted I can’t even type straight…
By now I’m probably such an intense man-hater that I’m worse than those women-hating gays, even though myself want to be a male (well I was born half-male). But I was made this way by their misogyny which was fed to me over a time.. Misogyny is everywhere in this society. I’m also an engineering student, so I bear a double burden of that. Reading this blog makes me not want to attend SF Pride this Sunday, honestly… may be I should just go to Transmarch on Friday and keep it at that.
June 27th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
I came across this article that seems to explain strange behaviour from a gentleman I suspect to be gay despite having a wife and a kid. As usual, he is very good at what he does. He has a peculiar lisp in his voice and he seems to dislike women. Ever since he saw me with a woman, he has been snappy and nasty to me. He is a very angry man, in my view and he definitely has displayed this so called “mommy issues”. I am hated by him because I have women friends. He became extremely nosey when he saw me with a woman. He constantly makes jokes about sex that I care less as his ex-customer. You can tell in his eyes that he looks “through” you and he makes smart-ass remarks with his lispy voice.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Anatole, you are a real prize. Really, just a little ball of fun. I’ll bet you pee champagne.
That said, an honest examination of gay male misogyny will find it quite prevalent in any number of “gay circles”. As a straight woman who has shared what she could of the struggle of LGBT people for full equality, I find males like Anatole an insult. Do I freak out when a lesbian comes on to me? Hardly, princess.
August 20th, 2009 at 8:55 am
I did not know this was a common thing amongst gay men, i always thought straight men would be more likely to put women down. But recently i have been hanging around with some gay male friends who also cross dress and over the weeks they have made various comments about women, things like how todays women are turning into men, how i need to see a stylist, and more recently i have had, how crap my shoes are, i look like an old woman with my glasses and boring hair style, im old fashioned, a decade older, im getting more masculine by the week when i adopted a masculine posture. I am a lesbian who prefers to dress androgynous, up to now i was not in any way transphobic, had no problem with men cross dressing as women despite the fact i am a feminist. But now i have changed my mind, last time around i gave these men some back and informed them that no matter how masculine a woman is she will always be more woman then they ever will be.
I am not going to be friends with these men again. This is bad for women as gay men are wide spread in the media and fashion world, this is why fashion is so nasty to women, its gay men not straight ones who like to see thin womens bodies, they want to make women suffer.
Gay men also dominate the scene, pushing lesbians to the side. The worst thing of all is that lesbians are the ones who get accused of man hating, while gay men are never called woman haters, this makes women like me unprepared for how nasty gay men and gay men who want to be women can be.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
As a straight man, I have had gay men come onto me (sorry, awful pun). This has happened randomly in pubs/clubs but also a very dear friend of mine. In the instance of my friend, I was flattered that somebody that intelligent and interesting was attracted to me. If a gay man approaches me randomly at a club, it all depends on how they approach. If they show respect, they get respect, if they’re obnoxious about it, they get reciprocity. I don’t honestly understand this repulsion that some gay men have for womens’ physiology. It’s ironic that (as in a comment above) so many gay men choose to engage in the fashion/media industry specifically in regards to womens’ fashion whilst/while (not sure) harbouring this disgust for women. It makes no sense and is pretty pathetic. The hypocrasy of it is also pretty blood-boiling and pointless, one victimized group bashing on another, when actually they should be allies protecting eachother against the social dominance of straight males (who are evil, except me) ;). I’ve sort of lost the plot on this one. Oh dear….
October 25th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Glad you brought up this topic. I came out over 30 years ago when gay men and lesbians were often strong political allies and sometimes good friends. But there was always the type of gay man who hated women and the groups they formed worked hard to prevent lesbians from joining. There were men’s bars at the time that came up with all kinds of creative methods for keeping lesbians out.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. I have a good friend - lesbian - who prefers the company of gay men. I’ve heard more anti-lesbian and anti-woman shit come out of her mouth lately than I can stomach. And I know the original source.
Lots of men (the majority?) hate women, it’s part of our culture. Sadly, some of those men are gay and should know better.
Oh, and by the way, very few lesbians I’ve known hate men - the fact is they either couldn’t care less (they don’t even really give men any thought) or they’re just like any other human being, they like who they like individually. You want to know who hates men? Straight women. Sit with any group of them and you will soon hear just how much.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
I’m a 29-year-old woman currently going through the pain of ending a long friendship with a gay male who has developed a misogynist streak. It has made it impossible to maintain any kind of friendship without being insulted on almost a daily basis.
When I brought it to his attention, that the cracks about my looks and femininity–that I’m aging, my style sucks, my complexion is bad or I’m getting wrinkles, I’m getting fat, insults about my vagina, basically anything he could say to get a dig–were getting to be a bit much, and beyond the point of being funny, he not only didn’t lessen, he made his snipes more frequent.
We used to have a lot of fun together, so I thought, and it is sad that it is ending now.
I’ve known he had mommy issues, namely that he hates his mother and blames her for his father leaving him as a child. Since he can’t squash her (she’s extremely strong-willed and dominant/masculine for a woman), he has attempted to squash every other woman around him, from his sisters and former female best friends, to now, me.
I told him I can’t be friends with anyone who can’t respect me, I am upset by the loss of our friendship, and what a shame it is, but at the same time…I’ve actually woken up the last few days not feeling useless and unattractive for the first time in a while.
Great article, and thank you for the support from the gay male community against this type of behavior, it means a lot to us women that you see it’s demoralizing, too.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Frankly, why did she come onto that guy if she “doesn’t need any man”? lol Really, she was hitting on him… well when u hit on someone, u might get a brush off, better be prepared for that!
Every man hitting on a woman gets a share of brush offs and rude ‘fck offs’… So, is she any better? huh huh. So wat she’s “beatiful” –sorry, does it make her Special Princess who can go around hitting on pple without rejection? Sorry, she hit on a gay dude… and got a cold shoulder. If I have some perv I don’t like hitting on me, I surely *will* be rude. How’s she any better than anyone else?
So, please don’t mix “misogyny” into it. There’s of course pretty intense gay misogyny in the world. But this particular case has nothing to do with it. If a stranger comes up to me with “hellos” and I’m a crappy mood, I might be mean to them… just because I don’t like people hitting on me. If she wants to hit on pple, she should stop whining, or should go back to waiting for her price (hope a straight one)
October 31st, 2009 at 8:42 pm
ps: i meant “waiting for her prince”
November 27th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
FUCK MEN AND WOMEN
FUCK MYSOGYNY
FUCK MYSANDRY
FUCK ME TOO
November 27th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Won’t even argue — just hate me for not agreeing with you. Have given up on people.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
It’s actually staggering that people indulging in such arrogant perversity will pontificate on about any “good” vs “bad” ways of implementing it!
Male ‘homosexuality’ is ALWAYS misogynistic, and female ‘lesbianism’ is ALWAYS misandric!
By definition!
There is NO ‘nice’ way you can callously reject an entire gender and conceitedly obsess over your own.
Wake up. All of you.
Scott
June 14th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Granted, this is an old article, but I just wanted to thank you for your honesty on this topic. I’m as straight woman who has had some pretty personal encounters with this. I’ve had to end long-term friendships with gay men who I had been friends since high school because once they got around some bad influences, they changed and they didn’t want to see how that was hurting me or their other female friends. They too thought they were being cute. You’re right–it’s not cute. Misogyny is about controlling women by making them feel inferior or ashamed. There’s nothing cute about that.
@Scott: Grow up. The world isn’t as black and white as you would like it to be. If you can’t deal with that, then please keep your petty, hateful mouth shut.
June 22nd, 2010 at 3:24 am
That’s the issue with her. She’s an spellbinding vocalist. It is so sad to see her spurn it getting caught up in all that awful rubbish. She should go to rehab, or book into a hospital, or get a more competent coach. Will she tour in future? I’d like to see her live, her concerts are really amazing.
July 28th, 2010 at 10:06 am
Valuable content and terrific insight. Thx for your blog post.